Monday, January 19, 2009

Class and Inessential Weirdnesses

Read a great article on class difference here.

"Corny."

I can't tell you how many times I have heard the word "corny" coming from poor/working class friends and family to describe things that are understood as higher class activities/values. My family is extremely uncomfortable with corniness. It's hard to define.

I cannot imagine the reaction my friends and family from back home would have had to the Thirteen Grandmother's Meeting. The chanting, the forced happiness, the smiles from strangers. All of that would have felt very strange and alienating. I can hear my older sister saying, "Bitch- you don't know me- don't smile at me" to one of the organizers. You may think that sounds awfully crude and violent, but, believe me- it's very complicated. I can't tell you how insulting a mere smile can feel from people you feel are looking down at you, from people who think that since they are organizing and you are attending, everything is equal and everyone can be friends instantly without introduction or shared experience. People whose hands are always giving, never receiving. (An anarchist punk girl from Pittsburgh tells me proudly that she is studying to become a nurse because she wants to open up a clinic to help poor women. I ask her if she ever was a poor woman. If she ever had to go to a free clinic for help. She doesn't get the question. Why would that matter- she wants to help!)

Or they just feel sorry for you. Also, I personally experience the prevalence of smiles from strangers at these events to reflect a levity and privilege in their lives which makes them so happy and calm and open in their eco-friendly shoes and Tibetan turquoise earrings- a levity I don't have because when I walk in I feel noticeably poor and awkward and angry and jealous. All of these feelings inside of me and I can pass. I'm white and semi-college educated and I know the lingo and the dress-code, so I can pass easily, but my family and friends could never and so, they would have walked right out the door. I also think the presence of the 10,000 dollar spot on the donation form was insulting and insensitive. Why throw in my face that there are people present who can afford to donate that much to anything when I had to skip a meal just to give five dollars? Why throw that number in my face when I spent that morning in the Social Security Office with my mom watching her kiss ass and get mistreated so she could get an advance on her crazy check to buy milk and bread? Do these people ever consider that their world might include poor people and just seeing that number might have fucked with me and traumatized me?

Nina and I read the above article together and went on to laugh about all the "Inessential Weirdnesses" we have experienced in our travels through class. This article is great, but it overlooks some of the other things working class people find very alienating and strange- specifically, the "everything is great" and "we are all so happy" attitude that higher class people have when organizing events. Chanting at spiritual events where people hold hands? Corny. So corny and weird.

I have experienced touch at these events strangely because from my experience of upper middle class families- touch isn't a big thing. The upper middle class families I have experienced (and there haven't been a lot, honestly) have always seemed cold and empty to me. Families with one child and no cousins anywhere. No grandparents living in the house. That is something I always experienced as strange because where I am from, families are big and people are always together and family members touch each other- whether that's your grandmother hugging you or your mom slapping you in front of relatives who just shake their heads and say you should have listened the first time. So, the big touching of strangers thing always seemed to me to be as an over-compensation for a lack of it in their personal lives. I could be wrong about this.

Corniness is marked by a lack of sick, twisted humor we have in my family and my community. A community where, if a child falls into a mud puddle, we might all stand around laughing while he cries before we run to help him up. This may seem cruel and cold, but it comes from living in a place where life is hard and you better learn to laugh at it or you are never going to make it.

Once, a few working class people and I sat around a bar table laughing and reminiscing about childhood- specifically all the beatings we survived. Leather belts beatings particularly. We laughed so hard telling the stories of what we did wrong and how bad we got our asses beat when we got caught. A friend at the table who grew up with money was horrified. She couldn't believe we were laughing. She kept saying cliche things like "hitting children is wrong" and all I felt was irritation that she felt she needed to tell us that, that it never occured to her that we experienced it first-hand and maybe our laughter was more complicated and interesting than us merely being complicit in our abuse.


"And if you hear a parent negotiating with a child about when to leave the playground, look around for who's rolling their eyes, and listen for the class overtones in the comments, like "F**king yuppies!"

In Whole Foods, parents are always letting their kids rule the day and it enrages me every time. A friend of mine spends twenty minutes trying to convince his little daughter to put her shoes back on after she plays in the park. My childhood was worlds away in harshness and discipline and babying your spoiled kids just leads them to be spoiled brats who expect the world to baby them, and I guess this works well for rich kids.... They grow up to expect the world to cater to them and it usually does.

Enjoy the article and remember, the Food Not Bombs kids are in fact being snobby when the prepare all vegetarian meals for the homeless people downtown.

33 comments:

Thomai said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZGUgwzKzEg

meredith graves said...

I just found your blog a while ago and I've kind of become mindlessly obsessed with you-- in a good way. I think you're brilliant and I love your writing... This is pretty much spot on, except for this one small segment that I'm not 100% on:

"(An anarchist punk girl from Pittsburgh tells me proudly that she is studying to become a nurse because she wants to open up a clinic to help poor women. I ask her if she ever was a poor woman. If she ever had to go to a free clinic for help. She doesn't get the question. Why would that matter- she wants to help!)"

I understand what you're getting at here-- there are intrinsic issues of class difference and this girl might not have first-hand experience, and maybe I'm just looking at this from the POV of an incredibly trustworthy person, but I guess I don't understand what the issue is here. Maybe I'm just not looking at it the right way (I am a white anarchist, but I'm also really poor and on my own, so I might have a very skewed perspective).

Again, I LOVE your blog. Please never stop writing.

meredith

Thomai said...

Smiling faces sometimes pretend to be your friend
Smiling faces show no traces of the evil that lurks within
Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes
They don't tell the truth uh
Smiling faces, smiling faces
Tell lies and I got proof

The truth is in the eyes
Cause the eyes don't lie, amen
Remember a smile is just
A frown turned upside down
My friend let me tell you
Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes
They don't tell the truth, uh
Smiling faces, smiling faces
Tell lies and I got proof
Beware, beware of the handshake
That hides the snake
I'm telling you beware
Beware of the pat on the back
It just might hold you back
Jealousy (jealousy)
Misery (misery)
Envy

I tell you, you can't see behind smiling faces
Smiling faces sometimes they don't tell the truth
Smiling faces, smiling faces
Tell lies and I got proof

Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes
They don't tell the truth
Smiling faces, smiling faces
Tell lies and I got proof
(Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes)
(Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes)
I'm telling you beware, beware of the handshake
That hides the snake
Listen to me now, beware
Beware of that pat on the back
It just might hold you back
Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes
They don't tell the truth
Smiling faces, smiling faces
Tell lies and I got proof

Your enemy won't do you no harm
Cause you'll know where he's coming from
Don't let the handshake and the smile fool ya
Take my advice I'm only try' to school ya

Thomai said...

as we rise out of the ashes of poverty we rename corny as "inauthentic"
hahaaah!

Thomai said...

ok, now that I read the whole piece (your writing, not the link yet)
I am saying mmmhmmmm
and sharing it with a certain 20 yr old young man...

thank you Davka

carrot quinn said...

"An anarchist punk girl from Pittsburgh tells me proudly that she is studying to become a nurse because she wants to open up a clinic to help poor women. I ask her if she ever was a poor woman. If she ever had to go to a free clinic for help. She doesn't get the question. Why would that matter- she wants to help!"

Davka- I am assuming from these few sentences that you don't think that people from wealthy backgrounds can be of much help to poor people- and I totally disagree with you. I think people who had it easy and stable their early years often grow up with a sort of resiliency, a battery of idealism, that then can help power them through the harsh realities of things like social work, where they are faced every day with all that is fucked-up and tragic in this world, and how it all ends up piled on the people on the bottom of the pyramid, which, on a global scale, is nearly everyone.

I, on the other hand, have no such battery. I cannot, at this point, imagine ever pursuing a career in social work- I've seen too much of poverty already, way, way, way too much, and it's taken me over ten years just to recover from the war that was my childhood. So I think it's amazing that there are people who didn't come from poverty, who want to help people who are in it. And going to nursing school seems like just the sort of concrete, truly helpful, not-just-good-intentioned-but-really-helpful thing to do. There are, in actuality, a shortage of nurses in the world. And as much as I loath the idea of western medicine with the very meat of my soul, being a nurse at a free clinic somewhere is maybe one of the best things any of us can reasonably do.

Vicky said...

"They grow up to expect the world to cater to them and it usually does."

Translation: They grow up expecting to be treated like human beings rather than inconveniences.

"Once, a few working class people and I sat around a bar table laughing and reminiscing about childhood- specifically all the beatings we survived. Leather belts beatings particularly. We laughed so hard telling the stories of what we did wrong and how bad we got our asses beat when we got caught. A friend at the table who grew up with money was horrified. She couldn't believe we were laughing. She kept saying cliche things like "hitting children is wrong" and all I felt was irritation that she felt she needed to tell us that, that it never occured to her that we experienced it first-hand and maybe our laughter was more complicated and interesting than us merely being complicit in our abuse."

But most likely everyone at that table treats/will treat their kids the same way. You were raised that way and you turned out all right, didn't you? You've got to start early if you want train people to let authorities walk all over them while they seethe with anger on the inside.

davka said...

Carrot, great point. I never really thought of it, but maybe some of my anger comes from the inability I have to be in that field of work now in my life, like you said- just so tired of seeing it.

I do think they can help. Definitely. It doesn't even make total sense. I want her to do that and would rather her do that than be some CEO to some earth-murdering corporation, but my only point is she will never know how it feels to need to have your hand out, receiving help. There is a certain prestige that goes along with being the nurse helping the poor and no prestige or honor with being the poor getting help and certain psychological ramifications will ensue on both sides. The word compassion means suffering with and no one would ever give up all their privileges and just suffer with people on equal ground (meaning no easy way out) and I wouldn't either. I am no better. But there is something completely lost in the translation between people from different backgrounds and it comes out in little ways.

I totally agree with everything you said, Carrot.

davka said...

Vicky, it's been my experience that these people grow up to expect everyone around them to constantly bend to their will and needs. They think everything they produce is magnificent because their moms put their spaghetti sauce napkin handprints in a frame on the wall when they were little- so they go to art school and produce total shit and think everyone in the world should pay attention and consider it brilliant.

Giving your child everything they want is neglect. You are neglecting to teach them healthy boundaries and to be apart of a world where not everyone gets what they want.

A child being negotiated with on a playground about leaving or a child who takes twenty minutes to agree to put on her shoes is being spoiled and will grow up with no sense of having to live with certain boundaries. The healthiest children come from firm boundaries with lots of love and affirmation.

Again, you, Vicky, are like the girl at the table. You have missed the point. You are insinuating that I think it's ok to hit children because I can look back at laugh at the horrors I lived through with other people who lived through them. You are preaching to me about why it is wrong to hit children instead of looking at what I really wrote about- the unique ability we have as people to live through things and to be able to laugh at it. We have cried, healed, hurt, etc. Now we can laugh and that is a strength. Laughing at something is a survival mechanism and doing it while recognizing something is fucked up is not mutually exclusive.

Dane said...

In a post surgical haze...

1) Love this. Love the anger, love the article, love that I found my own upper middle class white kid shit in it. more on that later, when not so foggy.

2) i fought in the hospital today. my mom's really sick but she's the only one around so she took me in, and she was coughing up her fucking guts and the nurses were giving her alternately sympathetic and dirty looks. and i had this comfy recliner chair thing to rest on, and i told them i wanted her to stay in it when i went in for surgery because she needed sleep. and they said no, and i said why not. and i got them to promise to let her stay and i was thinking about you and rick fuckin majors. thanks for giving us readers such a perfect guidebook to kicking ass.

more later.

davka said...

Meredith, yeah I didn't write it out enough. I want that girl to be the nurse and help people. But my first reaction was one of jealousy, anger, and irritation that these people can always relate to the poor in a sense of giving them something, helping, being the beautiful angel nurse that helps and cares for instead of the poor person needing free help. There is a certain psychological insecurity that develops when you need free help. My experience has been that people (like some of my family) get pathetic and thankful and ass-kissey in the face of free help and then there are people like my older sister who take the help and always secretly hate the helpers. These are natural reactions to being at someone elses mercy. There is nothing we can do to remedy this and the girl must have some kind of awesome heart to want to help people, but my awesome heart has been hardened by living through needing help and seeing people I love have to beg for help and, like Carrot, I could never work full-time as a helper and I am jealous that she gets to be that good person. This post was mostly about articulating anger and I am interested in the sometimes very crude and unfair ways my anger manifests.

Thanks Meredith I like your blog too! :)

davka said...

Dane, damn- I hope your mom is ok! I am sending healing and peace her way. I am glad you got what you needed. Ugh, the fight in the hospital is one of the scariest we will fight because you are so vulnerable. Sounds like you did well for yourself :)

Dane, it's good to find ourselves in essays about difference. I cannot tell you all the ways I have fucked up around people of color and said the stupidest things imaginable and have been told off. Every person is guilty of misunderstanding difference and being privileged.

I was once telling a friend from highschool about college. This friend didn't even get through high school because of needing to work and take care of his mom, having violence in his home, etc. I told him school was stupid and I wanted to quit. I said it to try to sound like I wasn't in school, like I was still with him, but I said it with such a levity and he got so offended. Told me I was spoiled for quitting, that I take things for granted, etc. That everyone knows my dad works hard for us and I am so lucky to have a dad that stuck around and cared for his kids. How dare I throw it in his face that I can just go to college and quit whenever I want to. It was a shock and I've wanted to write about it for a long time.

I think I need to write more about the times I've been called out.

Honey said...

I have to admit, I sit here seeing both sides and want to jump in, but then, where? I've sat in a free clinic for seven hours to be treated. I was also raised with my spaghetti handprints on the wall.

Of course, I get pretty hung up on the whole "vegetarian is elitist" shit, because that is what it is, shit. If people didn't eat meat, didn't need meat as a social status symbol, which it is, we might not have the problems that we do. The calories it takes to produce an ounce of beef- sixteen. That's a 1/16 ratio of return. Then there is the land, the massive amounts of water, and so on. Growing food on that land- grains especially- we'd have more food than we could handle. And maybe even enough that biofuel crops wouldn't eat into our food crops (which they currently do, heavily). When food is cheaper, people eat better. When it is whole food instead of processed, they feel better.

That rant certainly isn't directed at you, of course. Thanks for pointing out that article and sharing your viewpoint- it's been quite thought-provoking.

davka said...

I agree Honey. I personally believe vegetarianism is the best choice, but no one is going to convince my hunter father of that without sitting down at his table to dine as equals. I mean nobody is going to convince him of that ever- but especially not people he sees as coming from a totally different background, one he might understand as city and snobby. As far as Food Not Bombs, Nobody wants to be forced to eat something they don't like- like tofu, and be expected to have to eat it because they are poor and are eating for free and therefore have no right to their personal tastes.

It's like the woman said in the article, in the seventies she was very committed to not flushing her toilet all the time because she wanted to conserve water. Then she was having an organizing meeting in some old lady's home and didn't flushed and her friend told her she had to flush there. She decided that not offending the old lady and building a bridge to to her was more important at that moment than saving a few gallons of water. That is a choice she had to make and later on, after relationships and trust is established, you can start to tell people your facts and opinions about meat eating or flushing. Then they will receive it.

But again, meat eating is a complex issue and there is more than social status involved, there is culture and history and community and tradition and people cherish these things.

Luddie said...

I see my Grandmother and Great Grandmother's face inside of your words. I identify with the ancestral ass beatings. My mother pulled tender green branches for her own ass; I caught the eye of my step father, there my medicine was born. My ass is still vulnerable and hungry for a sure thing, a tired and true survival mechanism.

As a woman, I own the pain that comes from the abuse in our family, I own the secret that my grandmother and great aunt kept, and call it rape. They have come out to me, only in an effort to awaken the fight I own within my bones. Owning your bones is tiresome but your truth is there.

My whole body understands.

Love,
Luddie

Vicky said...

Davka,
Thank you for your lecture on child rearing :). Here's mine: A common misconception of people without children (and even some with children) is that children are little adults and we should expect the same reasonable behavior from them that we do from adults. Small children have tantrums not because they are bad or spoiled, but because they are children and are still learning to control their emotions. A little bit of empathy can help a lot. Another misconception that people who have experienced authoritarian parenting can have is that using empathy or kindness with children is the same as giving in or spoiling.


"Again, you, Vicky, are like the girl at the table. You have missed the point."

Perhaps that is so, Davka, but I was speaking from my own experience of these types of conversations. The people I know who grew up with those experiences either treat their children the same way, or don't have children but see nothing wrong with this kind of treatment. They saw their parent's behavior as normal and okay and said that they had deserved what happened to them.

Vicky said...

I'm sorry for the smug and condescending tone of my posts. I used it because I felt attacked by what you wrote in your post. I still stand by the content of what I wrote, but I wish that I had said it more politely. I think that parenting style belongs in the category of "essential weirdness".

Honey said...

Ah, this: there is culture and history and community and tradition and people cherish these things.

That's important to remember, always.

davka said...

Vicky, I'm also sorry if I am being shitty. I hear you and I respect your words, but it's so important for me to have you understand that I don't at all think it's ok to hit children. I never remain silent in public when I see children being mistreated.

I am too tired to go on and on about it. Those of us who survived those kinds of households often find it helpful to laugh about certain comical sides of that suffering. This doesn't mean that we don't mourn for the children we were then, the innocence we lost. It doesn't mean we don't vow to never repeat those behaviors and work hard at transforming our anger and pain. The hitting was terrible, but there were other forms of discipline utilized in our neighborhoods and homes that made us strong and gave us a lot of sense worth, and more importantly, gave us a sense that other people existed and had to be cared for and respected.

When I see kids interrupting adults and adults negotiating with kids on playgrounds, offering up toys and treats and promises to get a child to obey, I believe that will manifest later on in the child being unable to cope with life and the presence of the will of others. It will also manifest in parents, mostly moms, being disrespected. It also leads children to feel unsafe in the world, that their parents are pushovers.

I have many friends now who grew up in happy homes, spoiled, and never had anyone to look after. These people use drugs, self-destruct, and hurt others without any sense of how wrong that is. They have no social identity or responsibility. My working class friends cannot afford to be so flippant and wild because we have people depending on us, including parents and children. It is hard to live in this world and see the luxury and decadence of the children of rich people when you grew up so differently. These kids who are out hurting themselves and others, consuming like crazy, spending so much on clothes and drugs and parties without any check and balance and sense that people are suffering- they need a good ass beating. They needed a slap in the face when they were little. It would have done them good. Sometimes suffering is the only thing that teaches you to recognize suffering in someone else.

davka said...

Honey, I am mainly thinking of my dad's hunting- his friends, the years, his father taught him and so forth and back in time for awhile. That being said, I don't think "cultural" things that make a sport out of extended cruelty are ok. I think hunting is different, but I despise it personally.

Dane said...

I also think the presence of the 10,000 dollar spot on the donation form was insulting and insensitive. Why throw in my face that there are people present who can afford to donate that much to anything when I had to skip a meal just to give five dollars?

This belongs here. This incident has a good place in this article. The anger is appropriate. Not that you need me to tell you that.

Were I the organizer of this event, I still would've put 10,000 on it, because in that audience, (mixed class background), I just might get that kind of money. But only if I ask for it. Doing it from the microphone seems tacky, but a donor card - anyone can ignore a number, right?

Thoughts.

pdx said...

Wow! This is such a great conversation. I have been thinking about it all week. Thanks for posting the link to the article and for writing about your own reaction to it.

In my travels through race and class and gender and sexual orientation, one thing I've learned is to let go of the idea of "intention." Not many people "intend" to upset or offend others. The anarchist punk nurse girl, for example. Or the upper-class new agey smiley organizers of progressive events.

But they still need to be helped to understand how their stuff makes people feel (well, they need to be told if the people feeling it feel like expressing it to them. It's not their _responsibility_ to educate others about oppression, but it's an important opportunity for doing so).

Not many can let their guard down and feel that when confronted with it, but it's so important that we all do it when we're called out on it, and call out others if we feel safe enough to do so. We need to try to put ourselves into other people's shoes rather than just being defensive. Just listen and accept.

In a queer community racism workshop once, I listened to a gay black man talk about how much he hated white people. My first instinct, of course, was to be defensive--I never hurt him, and he didn't know me!!--but the more I thought about it, the more I realized: *this* is the damage of racism. This is the price we all pay for the existence of racism. For him, the pain of oppression, both institutional and personal. For me, the pain that this person may never be able to know or trust me, despite my "intentions"--and his hatred is *not* just his problem, it's mine. It's wrong just to dismiss his pain or call it stupid or wrong or try to convince him that I'm a "different" white person or pretend it does not have anything to do with me. It's important to acknowledge and validate the pain.

Ah, there's so much to learn...why can't we talk about this stuff all the time? Why don't they teach this stuff in school? We can't solve problems if we don't admit they exist!!

Again, thanks for the link and the words and the reminders

kate

davka said...

Kate, exactly! I love what you wrote about the man at the workshop- this is the price we all pay. There is a price we all pay. Most white people would have immediately reacted by becoming defensive. I have been that white person before. Sometimes it comes from reacting to this misconception that just because people are white (or men, or upper class) that means they don't suffer or struggle. Most people have been through enough shit in their lives to not like it very much when they are perceived and talked to as if their problems don't matter. But also it comes from this place of just refusing to be stereotyped, although the person in question had to live through stereotypes every single day. May we all let that opportunity come and be enriched by it as a chance to experience the feelings of the person seen as Other and to hear them and learn from them.

In a writing class the teacher opened up the discussion to be about race and all the people of color in the room were directing all their comments at me- not in an angry way per say, more like a testimony. At first I was like, why are they all looking at me when they talk, why are they all telling me and not the other ten white kids in the room. Then I realized that they understood that I understood them and weren't venting to hurt me, but to be heard. I listened and heard so much from them.

Another girl in the class, an anarchist punk girl (this is important because these types always feel that they are equally oppressed because they have suddenly chosen to live differently than their parents and be poor)- she said to the most vocal girl of color, "What you aren't understanding is that WE all have the SAME OPPRESSOR!" (emphasis mine)

My face went red with embarrassment because the girl was my friend and was sitting right next to me. Her implication was that we are all equally oppressed by government and capitalism, which in a sense is true, but why do white people always want to posit equality where it just doesn't exist. At such an important time when inequality was being deconstructed, why pretend there is equality? It is ok to admit difference. The girl of color said, "No. You are dead wrong. We do not have the same oppressor." And she was so angry she couldn't speak, so I used my privilege (the ability to remain cool because what was being discussed didn't directly indict me) to articulate it for her, explaining to the white girl that we live in a culture built upon white supremacy and therefore, we benefit from this system more so than the people of color and we cannot say we have the same oppressor when we are often the oppressors of this girl, in the most simplest example by saying something like that which, although well intended, totally denies the difference she desperately wants us to hear to build understanding.

Not to mention all the ignorant thing we white people say all the time to people of color. Not to mention the prevalence of representation we get to enjoy everyday- from cultural productions like movies down to simple make-up shade options and band-aid options at the pharmacy.

Yes, now I know not to take it personally and to listen and not be so defensive, but it was a hard lesson to learn. But this doesn't mean I don't defend myself when I am being unfairly targeted or mistreated. Basic precepts of respect will be had in any conversation or discussion I put myself into.

So, about INTENTION- good point. Over at the Angry Black Woman blog she had a very interesting entry about INTENTION. She basically says that not intending to do harm isn't the important component of offense. The offense felt by the minority is what is important. Although the offense felt is hardly ever considered the important part of the discussion. The offenders INTENTIONS are always what becomes the center of discussion, which, I believe, is just white people (and men, and wealthier people, and western people) putting themselves and their feelings at the center of attention, like always.

For example, that doctor who put a rose temporary tattoo on the woman's lower belly while she was asleep for surgery- he swore he didn't INTEND to make her feel violated- he wanted to make her laugh! So, because his INTENTIONS were good, her experience was void and most people agreed with him. How dare she assert her experience if he INTENDED to make her laugh!

Ben Stiller who made Tropic Thunder which uses the derogatory word "retard" over and over again didn't INTEND to perpetuate violence and stigmatization against people with disabilities, so how dare we criticize him.

When I wrote the word "squaw" in an article on here and was contacted by a Native American woman who found it offensive, I certainly didn't INTEND to hurt her, but I also didn't shut down the discussion and make my intentions the center. I listened and learned and apologized.

The experience of the people hurt by these things should be what's important- not our intentions. The experience of feeling hurt by words, stereotypes, etc should be the discussion. Like you said, holy shit what valuable discussions these are and could be if people weren't always silencing them.

Also, our good intentions don't make up for our lack of awareness of what words and behaviours indicate and parade privilege.

Also- as I have learned, when discussing things that offend me it is so in my best interest to keep a cool head and be open and teach instead of attacking. The difference is amazing in reception when people felt included in the dialogue and not persecuted.

Ahh, the world is changing! How lovely!

I spent like the whole day yesterday thinking about what Vicky said and it helped me come to terms with a lot of things I was avoiding, specifically using the word "abuse" to describe my childhood. I don't think people realize the refusal to confront words and realities like that is not from being too stupid to see the injustice, but really being afraid to admit what was done to us because where do we go to heal? Who can openly invite the big scary monster under the bed to lay with them, eat them alive?

Who is big enough to do that? Or to help someone else fight the dragons?

davka said...

Dane, I thought about that too, but I think anyone donating that much would have already contacted the organizers, contacted their accountants, etc and donating that much would would require some more work anyway, so why not leave it open at the bottom of the form "anyone making donations higher than $500- please see front desk."

Honestly, that number fucked me up so bad and had me hating everyone in there from such a gut level, no rational thinking could help me. Big numbers like that should not be thrown around- it was tacky and offensive. Especially in such a poor neighborhood. I am sure if I would have spoken up and expressed this pain to the organizers they would have realized and reconsidered.

Knowing that people have that much is so traumatizing to me. I need to write a whole new blog about that because I have experienced a lot of that lately.

Nikki said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Advaya said...

I knew food not bombs fed vegetarian meals, but I assumed they stayed away from expensive, and all together unnecessary, items like tofu! I assumed they fed vegetarian meals because they were cheaper and less likely to spoil, meaning they could feed more people. I am sure that there is also ethical considerations, but I just felt it was logical for the reasons listed above of the cost of grains verses the cost of beef, both in terms of material cost and the environmental and social costs.

Your post has very excellent points though. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us :)

davka said...

Advaya, you may be right. But everyone wants a burger sometimes.

kidding, I have never had a burger in my life.

Dane said...

Also, about FNB - where I was from, the FNB folks used only what food they could get for free, either donated or Dumpstered from the neighborhood stores. I remember one of them once saying nobody ever gave them meat because of liabilities. Safer to give out bread, veggies, rice, beans. I don't remember them serving much in the way of tofu. Weird salads? Definitely. But they had the advantage of having the fancy chain-store bakery as one of their donors. They always got to hand out sweet comfort food desserts - muffins, cupcakes, cookies, etc.

Thomai said...

It is response ability that allows some who come from more than average privilege to give back- to run into the fire and become hero's.

Doe sthe hero know what it is to live and try to grow in the fire? No, but some of them know how to bring you out and do it with grace.
it's just that a lot of them get it wrong - go in for different rwasons and some even cause the flames to grow higher.

All anyone can do is the best they know how. All anyone can do is learn and grow, survive and maybe even thrive. Being able to respond, whether your privilege is wisdom or wealth or health or all of that - it, is an ability that is first desired in the heart.


The word compassion comes from the Greeks 9I know a lil about them) it does not mean to suffer. It emans to suffer TOGETHER or empathize, or sympatico
it's that knowing that we are all in this together (from the Greeks)
what it means now, in the metaphysical movement is
acceptance and love or understanding of a person, it has become synonymous with unconditional love
or what the Greeks would call Agape.

Honey said...

I feel differently about hunting. I know people, personally, who hunt and eat the deer (initially spelled dear for a nice freudian moment) on their land. They do so respectfully of the animals (they don't take them young or female, etc) and they respect the spirit of the animal and use all it's parts-- bones, etc.

I think that it is ok to be a part of the food chain in that way, and certainly animals such as fish do our body a lot of good. The food chain works like this: animal A kills and eats animal B. Animal A might share his kill with others in their family pack, and animal A may hunt in a family pack, but that's it.

There is nothing animal A to animal B about raising animals to kill and eat, wasting the rest of them. So, if you can kill something, then you should feel welcome, nay, obligated, to eat it. And use all it's parts. And never be any further away from the process than knowing the person who did so.

I use animal products- I know the woman who owns the goats whose cheese and yogurt I have, and I know the man who raises the chickens whose eggs I eat. Hell, I've met the bees whose honey, propalis, wax and pollen do me such good. And sometimes I am more removed than that- and I miss it when it happens like that.

Ok, long rambly bit over.

ShanaRose said...

Davka,
first of all, it's good to read you again after being away from your blog (and computing for leisure) for awhile. It's also good to hear you stirring up some shit again, it sounds like you have more mind space to talk about things other than grief, hospitals, mourning, and love - I hope it means things are getting better for Rick.
I didn't read all the comments, but did get through a few and it looks like there's some good essential conversation happening!
Finally, the "Inessential Weirdness" post comes at a very serendipitous time where I am working with a group of 20 diverse women in Chicago to put on The Vagina Monologues and other V-Day fundraisers. As we discussed a house party lunch fundraiser today people were talking about the food being vegetarian or vegan as a given and I was sitting there thinking: doesn't anyone like sausage and french toast? The backgrounds our women all come from are international and across class lines and I'm SO grateful to understand the middle ground and the inessential weirdness from having to navigate the false pretenses of class that my own girlhood wound around in. I hope to share the article with some of the women involved.
Hugs and Light

::::wifemothermaniac:::: said...

I'm raising my kids to be negotiators instead of blindly obedient, because I think this helps to protect them from being victims. They are not being raised to obey adults simply because they are adults, and they are allowed to dissent. I feel I'm protecting my girls by letting them have loud voices that they are unafraid to use, even if sometimes that is being rude to an adult.

I was passed around my family and lived in the poorest part of town, and the richest. It sucked more to be an abused kid in the richest part of town, because when I ran away to the streets I had the shit kicked out of me there too until I was put beneath the kids from the poor parts of town.

I went through foster homes/delinquent lock ups, ate people's leftovers off their plates in malls, and left a rich neighborhood to do this because a fridge full of food was not worth being destroyed over. I met fucked up shitty asshole kids and people from all classes, and most of them were beaten. The nicest teeangers I've ever known have been raised respectfully, probably indulgently by your standards, and so I work hard every.damn.day of my life to not parent the way I was and to parent the way you think you understand here, because I know kids raised this way who turn out Beautiful. There is no perfect way to raise children, but I will not perpetuate the crap I went through, I do look at the kids who turned out to be good people and ask their parents how they were raised. The answers contradict what you think you know here.

Now that I ranted and over shared, thanks for inspiring me to vent this, LOL~! I can't help but me moved, in one way or another, every time I come here.

- corny Rachel

my poor side of the family didn't use the word Corny. They were Polish war trash, and referred to people with money as Beeg Shots.

davka said...
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